So, Mitch, how is it that a lawyer from Texas ended up representing victims of sexual harassment at a mega church in Chicago? Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? I think that they were scared of what Ill call the Christian Industrial Complex that had risen up around Bill, the economic consequences of speaking out on a topic of high consequence. They made a lot of friends. They were almost sacred and benevolent and unable to do wrong. I dont think that theres anything at a mega church that innoculates it from being good. To me, this was one of the beautiful God moves about the entire situation. My personal belief, not speaking on behalf of anyone else, my personal belief is that that structure is designed to fail, because elders cant elder in that structure. Well, one thing I did want to cover, and our time is getting to an end, but I know that you have dealt with having a sexual predator within your church. Also I want to let you know that Judson University is planning to resume in person classes this fall for traditional transfer and adult students and its still not too late to apply. Boy, and if more churches did that, how much pain and heartache among the sheep would have been spared? Yet, Scripture and to how to teach it became new and deep and exciting every week as I listened to Pete in the short three years I have been at Bent Tree. And when I came into the representation, that was a new term to me, Id never heard anything like it. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. That was my upbringing. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. It is a collection of people that we are to care for. Well, and I hope there are Christian leaders listening to this who take note because is the time of just being silent and thinking that because youre silent, nothing will come back on you, thats past. Well, and that is one aspect of the story that I wanted to explore together because I know that what happened at Willow from my understanding of speaking with Vonda and several victims is that it was far worse, the abuse there and far more pervasive than most people know, and thats one of the frustrations I know of a lot of the victims is that Willow hasnt publicly acknowledged that or publicly said how bad it was. So glad to see you feature Mitch Little. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. The immense audio, video, and written teaching resources on our website help people who are seeking answers about God to know Christ and experience Life in all its fullness. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. I think it took courage. I would love to see Chicago experience revival. With that purpose in mind, they launched theTelling the Truth ministry. And a lot of us who sat in the congregation and received from them were, you know, duped and we bought it. It started as a simple tape duplication ministry in a home basement, using a reel-to-reel tape recorder linked to a dozen smaller recorders to duplicate the Briscoes' teaching. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. Youre absolutely right. Hes also the chairman of the elder board at a multisite megachurch in Dallas, Texas. Thank you for joining us in seeing to it that no one misses the grace of God. There was a period of time, Ill call, The Great Loneliness after that Chicago Tribune article came out, where they were radioactive. Petes leadership at Bent Tree casts a long shadow with a legacy that will endure. And that was how Bill deformed his accountability structure. And that set the course for some of these more severe things to continue happening, and then to even get more and more severe. Everything started to make sense. Julie, thats whats so interesting about this story to me as I got deeper into it, I started to understand That, you know, when you go to the movies, and you see a story, you expect, okay, that guys the villain. Briscoe stepped down as senior pastor at the end of 2000 but remained involved in the church and active in overseas missions. It took me a long time to agree that he had done the things of which he had been accused. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. So grateful for those who did and Scot McKnight who came out with a just a powerful, I remember when his blog hit and he said, Every elder has to resign. And within what, wasnt it a week, all of them resigned. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. And I remember you saying. I think its incredibly dangerous. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." And these men are good actors. So Im very much looking forward to our time together today. And thats not what this is about. So I was really struggling with my faith. It is not a program is not a set of services. But I have to say that in the middle of dealing with a lot of tall weeds and bugs, God has also given me some flowers and fruit trees to enjoy. They know there would be swift and sure discipline, if not firing, even with one mistakedepending on the severity of the misbehavior. The radio program began to attract listeners and supporters, enabling the ministry to expand its broadcasting to a growing number of stations throughout the United States and abroad. Okay. Im against too many lawyers, and I think Im in a position to critique this. I totally agree with you Julie on how I viewed the Clergy and Church growing up. These are people that are in your country club. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. Pete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrysteaching team from 2003 to 2021. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both If you go back and you look at Bill Hybels books in retrospect, Im amazed at some of the things that are contained in his books that people became okay with. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. God uses the faithful and generous support of people like you to continue to change lives through the ministry of Telling the Truth. He was like one of these, I think until Scot decided to speak up, it was, Willow had credulity to say, These are people outside our tribe who are criticizing us. We needed to go to the hills and fight as guerillas, you know, what is guerrilla warfare? And another womans situation, theyre in an elder board meeting, and Bill Hybels, you know, has his hand on a womans leg, and no one else can see. And what lessons can we learn from Willow Creeks mistakes? So, thanks for taking the time and you know, anybody whos willing to take a few minutes out of their vacation for a podcast, I just really appreciate it. And so when you know from the pulpit, that might be a strength. And this is one of the I think exciting things. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. So whos supposed to hold whos supposed to hold the leaders accountable in that structure? He said, Pete, you should have one lawyer on your board but not more than one. And I believe that there is some really sound wisdom in that. What makes you stick with that model and believe it can still be used despite how badly that model has been abused? Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. Im wary of the theatrical, evangelical stars that are so prevalent now. That night we had a guest speaker come in for a special presentation. I had no idea what to expect as this lone man stood on the stage. But it was after a period of I dont know the details, and I dont know how much youre at liberty to say them, but its my understanding he went away for a period of time to kind of reflect and assess how he was doing and how he was handling things. You know, I believe in spiritual strongholds and things like that. However, there should be a bubble level of character in Christ that we return to. When I came onto our board, the terms that Pete Briscoe used were, guide, govern and guard. And I think policy governance has the governing part. And in the few times Ive spoken with him, I found his insights to be profound. Great question. Really what it is, Julie, if we want to get down to it and go to spiritual or biblical terms, these are these are works of the flesh when were not led by the Spirit. But if you have a pastor with a glaring character flaw youre fooling yourself if you think youre gonna keep that character flaw in line with a pastor who doesnt put Jesus Christ first in his life, am I right? Talk to me about how you saw this playing out at Willow Creek. Hes also the chairman of the elder board and his own church, Bent Tree Fellowship. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. Interestingly enough, during the interview, he seemed extremely angry and resentful. 1 talking about this. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! And we need to apologize. And theres a lot of people asking, Is that just too great a burden to ever put on one person? How do you respond to that? And Willow just, they got killed because they wouldnt respond and say the truth. Yeah, were all saints who sometimes sin. Explain that. Fortunately, we have not had so much as one complaint about any one of our pastors or staff members. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. Hybels at one point had a major conflict with a woman who was serving on the elder board, who was trying to hold him accountable and essentially used a reconciliation process involving some other big names in evangelicalism to essentially run her off, put her under an NDA. Growing up in a ministry family, Pete watched and learned from his parents and witnessed the reach and power of Telling the Truth's media outreach. The other woman that Mitch represented will remain confidential but both these cases enabled Mitch to peek behind the curtain at Willow Creek and view upclose some of the dysfunctions that led to that scandal. I think, as believers, we should be standing for truth, we should not look the other way. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. Dear anonymous. I encourage you to start praying again and trust God to open doors for you in godly and meaningful fellowship. Petes teaching and emphasis on the sufficiency of Christ leaves an indelible mark on so many of our souls. If youre looking for a car I encourage you to visit my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. And so I do think its a healthy thing when youre afraid of doing wrong, because it will be brought up and you will be held accountable. God uses the weak things of this world to confound the strong, right? Today were talking with Pete Briscoe, who served as the senior pastor for nearly three decades at Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, Texas, and now consults with and coaches pastors. After a failed attempt to travel alone in his truck out west, he came to church with us that very day. 1 talking about this. But lets talk about since were talking about the media, Willow Creek had unbelievable resources at its disposal, right. He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. Leave them alone. I can see the elders (more than half of which were women), and people in general saying, It was only a hug. I was blown away. I followed the Harvest situation, which I think is its own it, you know, separate facts. You know, Willow creeks pastors family members benefit from the Penumbra of Willow Creek and its just sheer size within evangelicalism. And he offers keen insights that are desperately needed as many churches today struggle to be healthy and to avoid the mistakes other megachurches have made. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. And he realized that he had missed an opportunity to share Christs love with this person, and he didnt even feel worthy to give this message tonight, you know, and he got teared up and, and Im watching this, you know, as a 20, early 20 something right? At the end of the day the aftermath of destruction is felt on so many levels by so many people and we all react differently in our humanness. And I can only imagine what the economic forces are behind the scenes for that, but it really disappoints me, that that hasnt happened. A person whos not walking in the Spirit is susceptible to that type of behavior, even a senior pastor. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. And that that was something that taught you an awful lot about how elder board should deal with sexual impropriety or sexual abuse within their own walls. And presented them with the information, he essentially tossed it to the side and said, So what?, No consequences. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. I think that was a move of God, a move of the Holy Spirit. So when you have someone who is trusted, whos supposed to be an expert, you know, like a pastor, like a longtime senior pastor whos supposed to be a theological expert, and someone whos in authority like a senior pastor, people are willing to do things to satisfy that person that they would not otherwise do, even if those things seem harmful to another person. And you you actually refer to it as multi-level marketing. I agree, Pastor Bob. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. And I think that Bill Hybels created an advocacy structure around him by having that many lawyers on the board. I mean, it was a great time. Why did so many look the other way for so long? Hes one of the good guys. It was like trying to fit a battleship through a set of French doors. And I remember you saying once that you had gotten a manual, I think it was from the ECFA, and boy, we could talk about them. And I think there was, but I think that theres a spiritual stronghold around celebrity culture within evangelicalism writ large. I am with you in this sad place of justified disappointment in the church. And you have to, there must be assiduous accountability going on in the life of someone who has the big radio show has the big platform, his platform at conferences and large organizations, because the temptations are greater. Its good to be visiting with you again. And yet youre still in a megachurch, multi-site church. Right. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Yeah, thats right. We are egalitarian and sophisticated, and we are Gods chosen church to show how ministry is supposed to be done. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Oh Well, and I appreciate your service to the church. This is just the way things are in Corinth. Like they didnt read a book, figuring out how to do it, but there are warning signs that people need to be aware of. Its M-I-L-G-R-A-M the Milgram experiment, but basically American researchers were trying to figure out after World War II, why so many in German society were willing to go along with the Nazis or go along with their leadership, do incalculably horrible things to people. I think youre absolutely right about that. And so, you know, as a lawyer on the board, youre not absolved from the obligation of complying with the mandates of Scripture. Their board operated by unanimity as well. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. Yeah, right. But theres a sense that the Church of Jesus Christ Universal is represented all throughout not just the United States but the world. I hope you have a great day and God bless. But we dont have time on this podcast. Whats our theology? Correct? On this episode of The Roys Report, Julie explores these important questions with Mitch Little, whos not just an attorney for victims. Well Mitch, one of the things Ive never discussed is that we used to attend Willow Creek. But other than that, you know, there just werent a lot of people in the larger church speaking and there had to have been a lot of church leaders who knew about what was going on and knew that there were problems with Bill Hybels. Understanding & Overcoming Spiritual Abuse, Part II, Understanding & Overcoming Spiritual Abuse, Escaping & Healing from Abusive Churches, Part 2, https://world.wng.org/sites/default/files/issues/pdf/world_sep012018.pdf, https://www.billionbibles.com/voice-of-the-martyrs.html. And sadly, I think they have still. I dont think I could survive the corruption I see today had I not seen so much thats good and beautiful in the church growing up. And I do think theres a spiritual stronghold, I hope and pray that it will be broken in our area. Well, Mitch, this has been read. WebIt is with heavy hearts that the Elders of Bent Tree announce that Pete Briscoe has submitted his resignation as Senior Pastor. Inside their system, they need to be guarded, governed, guided. Many more than even Vonda Dyer knew. If you have six members of the Board of eight, lets just say its eight or 10. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. WebLearn More About Pete Today - Pete Briscoe God loves you to distraction, There is nothing you can do to make Him love them more or less, And, that Life with this Lover God is rich beyond description, regardless of your performance. And he committed sex acts with her. It manifested even at the IT level at the church. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. That is a very fair question. But I guess this is the question so many are asking is, Can anybody be in those kind of jobs with the kind of responsibility that is put on one human, one person to lead thousands of people? And so many looking to him for vision for leadership for everything. And so I hope your listeners understand what I mean, when I say this, thats how good God is that he can use people who are even morally bankrupt, to bring people to himself. And the thing that is astonishing to me, you used the issue of emotional vulnerability is that, you know, a lot of times our strengths are our weaknesses. Because they were required to move by unanimity. Its one of the beauties and the deformities of social media is social media is agile. At the same time, hes writing a book and writing articles for Christianity Today about marriage purity. So many people are looking the other way. Its all a Business and Power tool and stage for Virtue Signaling. And yet here we see a church thats ostensibly about serving God, and its about proclaiming the gospel and yet this is happening within the church. But it just has not really looked like true repentance in so many ways. All the times something didnt seem right. I am thrilled to be here. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. They didnt have the ability to respond to new issues as they arose. I think the larger the platform, the more rigorous the accountability needs to be. Im Julie Roys. which Hybels assented to including you know, repenting for his behavior and not talking about politics and some other things as well. I was just following following lawyers advice. So its okay. I was the senior pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship for nearly 30 years. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. As I was working through the Willow Creek representation with these women, the thing that kept cropping up to me was the Milgram experiment. So there were more than 10 women that came forward and said that there was sexual misconduct by Bill Hybels. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. But this certainly raises red flags. Put a skin tag on it or a flesh tag. And they were no friends of ours during the Harvest investigation either. Thank you so much. The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. And its pervasive, and people are, theyre using it. The ministry began in 1971 while Stuart served as senior pastor of Elmbrook Church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, which grew into the largest evangelical church in the state. Hmm. Well, since you brought it up, youre gonna youre gonna have to address the Vanilla Bean. WebSince that time he has ministered on every continent, written more than 40 books, pastored a church for 30 years, and founded a media ministry called Telling the Truth which now broadcasts daily worldwide. David Jankowski. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. And so when you see behaviors that look like grooming, you know, John Calvin, Im not a Calvinist. and so I almost feel like the elder boards are there to keep the honest person honest. You know, when you have somebody like Bryan Loritts, who when hes talking about why when he was at a former church, he didnt disclose to the church that they had a sexual predator among them for six months. it is. So if you think of Willow as being a living thing, we are willing to put other things to death on the altar of preserving that organism. Amen. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. And if you are not willing to as an organism, or as an organization say, We messed up. And my understanding was the elder board set some boundaries for Clinton to be able to come and speak. I wonder, I wonder what effect that might have had on them. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. Its designed to be fought asymmetrically. It was stunning to me. May God lead your next steps and may you find ways to use your gifts from a place of health. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. There was another documented case where he had oral sex with his assistant back in the 90s at WC. And Im good friends with her husband Scott Dyer as well. 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